In my last post, I discussed a possible fourth class for a generic fantasy AGE System. This came from one of Chris Pramas’ conversations with his Twitter followers, where he said that one of the reasons why he may consider a fourth class is the majority of gaming groups have four players and this should make it easier for these groups to just pick one character from each of the four classes and go. Putting aside the question of the size of the average gaming group, there were some interesting comments brought up in that Twitter discussion about what class that should be. I weighed in, arguing that what was missing in for a generic fantasy AGE-based game was a true ranged weapons archetype. If I want to play Dude With A Bow And Arrow, the Rogue class says it’s the one to go with (heck, even the image of the Rogue is the Dude), but to actually aspire to Legolasian heights, initially Warrior sounds better.
However, I think there is a better – and easier – way to achieve this character idea instead of creating a whole new class. Indeed, there is a simple way to get in both that Priest class and live up to the description of the Rogue as the one that’s supposed to be the archer: each class has paths.
Take a look at Pathfinder’s Sorcerer class. You take the class and pick one of nearly a dozen bloodlines that flavor the character. In that game, your Sorcerer with the Elemental Bloodline (air) will have different abilities than your Sorcerer with an Infernal Bloodline, yet they’re both the Guy That Doesn’t Forget His Spells When He Casts Them. It’s actually pretty cool and easily portable to the AGE system.
Let’s look at the Rogue class in Set 1. As the class powers go, he’s still the Sneaky Bastard In A Fight. Backstab and Bluff are nice abilities that says you are getting right up into that guy’s face and inserting several pieces of sharp metal in his ribs before he realizes what’s going on. But if you want to play Dude With A Bow And Arrow, you’re stuck with picking up Archery Style (novice) at third level (which puts you a degree behind the Warrior Legolas), and you have a basic class ability that you’d never use. Instead, let’s create Rogue class paths: a melee track and a ranged weapons track. We keep the same class powers, but for Backstab, it now reads “You can inflict extra damage with a melee attack or a ranged attack…. You must choose between melee and ranged attacks when you first gain this power.” Level 4, Bluff, same thing – it modifies the Backstab option you took at Level 1.
(Although, the Rogue ability that makes the Pierce Armor combat stunt only 1SP instead of 2 might make that Level 4 Rogue (Archer) look to be a better path than the Level 4 Warrior for the Legolas-minded.)
Likewise, the Mage could easily be split into D&D’s divine/arcane divide by just saying that you decided if the Level 1 Lance skill is an Arcane Lance or a Holy Lance. If you really wanted to port over your D&D Cleric, you’d probably create a Turn Undead class talent that only divine spellcasters can take. This class talent would be something like Set 2′s Repulsion Field spell, only it affects the non-living and doesn’t require the Mind Blast and Force Field prerequisites. This would probably come in as options to replace the Arcane Lance or Spell Lance class powers, depending on how effective it is. Set 2 shows how with specializations, the Mage can go even further to fill that Cleric-as-healer role with the Spirit Healer specialization or go into the more recent editions of D&D where the Cleric is a rather decent frontline fighter by adapting the Arcane Warrior specialization.
So again, opening the floor to you. Are there any class changes you’d make for a generic fantasy AGE system? How would you handle a priest or an archer for your generic fantasy game?





Feb 10, 2011 @ 09:49:26
I can agree with a ranged class specialization being clearly defined rather than a priest class.
One of the major things I love about DA is simplicity and that classes are guidelines but that there is so much room for flavor that is stampeded to death with rules.
That is something I like about the feel of Savage Worlds as well. Look at trappings in the magic system. Two magic users with the same spell can describe it completely differently for their own flavor. Yet the mechanics stay the same.
I would be worried about class introduction destroying what so many people are falling in love with in DA; simplicity. Look at Pathfinder/3.5 and 4e. While it is constantly cool and exciting to see tons of new classes and new abilities, it is also mind numbing.
The new Ultimate Combat looks cool, and I am honestly excited about the new Gunslinger and the Grit mechanic, however that is a whole new set of rules and mechanics that, as the GM, I have to be familiar with when one of my players takes up the class.
In my DA game I have already ruled that Backstab works with ranged. You are just as unlikely to see/hear an arrow/bolt about to pierce your butt as a dagger in a mans hand.
Feb 10, 2011 @ 11:08:33
Keep in mind that this article was written at about the same time as the prior article; nothing in the comments from that article have been taken into account for this one.
Also, both this article and the prior one in this series are looking at the AGE system in a generic fantasy game, not expanding the Dragon Age game. I read some of the comments in the earlier article as “what fourth class is needed in the Dragon Age game/setting?”
Feb 10, 2011 @ 11:15:54
Oh and didn’t mean any slight on this post. It’s a good one.
I apologize if it seems I was knocking your article.
Feb 14, 2011 @ 12:44:21
No problem — I meant for my comment to be a standalone comment and not a direct response to yours. When we removed my duplicate comment, it looks like we nixed the wrong one.
One of the things that I was trying to wrap my head around is this: with just three classes, is that all that is needed for a generic fantasy game? Chris Pramas’ comments in Twitter seemed to want a fourth class because it would let everyone at the table (assuming four PCs and one GM) have their own path. Niche specialization, as it were. However, with the breadth of spell selection (coupled with not being able to cast everything in the book) in Dragon Age, that “Mage” class easily covers what I see in World of Warcraft (with their specializations) attack spellcasters, buff/debuff casters, area control casters. Even the Priest class that was bandied about on The Twitters can come into play with just the spells in Dragon Age.
As all three classes have their class skills focus on combat, my next thought was a fourth class would likewise be combat-focused. However, do we need a fourth class? Would a group with two Mages with completely different spell focuses think that they are watering down their contributions group because they both fall under the “Mage” category? Would it be better if the second mage had a different class title like “Summoner”, “Arcanist”, or “Psionicist”?
Feb 14, 2011 @ 12:50:00
My feelings tend to go towards multiple class builds. In the Magic section, there are five different selections for starting spells. Effectively, this is the split for Mages. I’d add in some “choose only one of the following skills” choices during character advancement, sort of like in D&D 3.5 where a Ranger had to choose between an Archery focus or a Dual-Weapon focus at one of the early levels. That’s the genesis of my Backstab hack above.
Feb 11, 2011 @ 05:50:06
I think Class Builds (to borrow a term from D&D 4e) are a perfectly good answer to the problem at hand. We are still limited in the number of options we have, but that will slowly change over this year.
That said, why don’t you take a stab (pun firmly intended) at putting together a build suggestion for Ranged Baddass using a Talents and Focuses (with Stunt suggestions for certain effects)? This could be another good post along the very same topic you’ve been exploring, Thomas.
Feb 14, 2011 @ 12:54:51
I am thinking of running a generic fantasy game based on the AGE system for next month’s Tucson RPG Guild Gathering. I might work on burning up a set of characters for that, which takes into account some of the comments garnered in this and the previous article.
Feb 18, 2011 @ 01:41:46
I’m stating up the adventure to 4th level badassitude. For the archer, the Bluff skill just doesn’t work, so I was looking at a few other options. Something that decreases the penalty for long range attacks? But by then, your Rogue archer would have the Dexterity (Bow) skill focus and Archery Style (novice) and possibly increased Dexterity, which means that even without aiming, she’s anywhere from +5 to +7 on her attack roll, which is pretty darn good at that level. Tack on an aim action and she’s at +7 to +9. Scary.
Additional damage? That’s kind of already in there with the Backstab ability (which is now a ranged ability) and with the Mighty Blow stunt. I hesitate to also make a stunt bonus that lowers Mighty Blow to 1SP, because that feels like cheapening the standard combat stunts by allowing that and the Pierce Armor stunt at 1SP.
But what’s this on the stunts chart? Disarm. Disarm for archers allows for disarming with ranged attacks as well. Make an opposed test, your attack roll vs the target’s … hmm. Perception (Seeing) to notice the attack? Strength (Might) to keep the weapon from flying out of the grip? If you win, you knock the enemy’s weapon 1d6 + Dexterity yards away, directly away from you.
Thoughts?
Feb 18, 2011 @ 15:42:24
Thomas, this is a bit stream-of-consciousness so I’m having a little trouble picking out what is your new idea from the existing material. Care to restate what you propose?
And yes, by 4th-5th levels, AGE characters are downright badasses. I cannot wait to see what’s in store in Set 2!
Feb 11, 2011 @ 09:33:51
Daniel, I think the build suggestion is a really good idea. We have a lot of PCs out there and some great NPCs in the published products, but having some “iconic” builds for new players to look at could help them by laying out what focuses or talents they should take to get the kind of character they want.
It could be something like: “If you want to play a ranged bad-ass, consider taking XX background and XX talent at level one. To continue, consider XXX at level 2, etc.”
Feb 11, 2011 @ 10:30:22
Yes, exactly that!
Oct 28, 2011 @ 15:06:54